What race setup?

[Ayham]

Been discussing this for the past 2 weeks regarding what suspension setups our competition cars should have. I can afford to make my car more track-oriented cuz I only drive it on weekends and days off. I've always heard great things about Ground Control coilover kits and love the fact that they're tailor-made as per your preferences with extra spring sets to alter depending on your needs. One set for the track (600-700Ibs front and 800Ibs rear) and softer springs for street driving. I also notice that their build is a bit different from other kits with fortified weak points (welded) and what not...KW V3 is on the table too, but I don't want something out of the box; compromised!

Brakes are as good as it gets and I can't justify spending a lot extra on marginal gains, pads are a must though.

Race team, what are your insights? What will you be running?

[Bruno]

BBK, polyurethane and coilovers will be more than enough for me...

can someone source me the CSL rotors and brakes... mind you that i will have to upgrade the calipers and carriers for them to fit.

Edit: i will also sell my rear mufflers for something extremely loud... I’ll be getting GruppeM

[Ayham]

Which coilovers?

[Bruno]

Honestly i don't know...but GC will be the right choice

i was thinking of 3 sets of coilovers... KW, TCKline, or GC

KW, offer the lowest drop which means that my BBS will rub...

Advantages:
High quality materials and manufacture
Complete kits with all needed components
progressive springs means comfortable ride
Inox (stainless steel) shock body means no corrosion

Disadvantages:
Minimal spring choices
Progressive springs means car does not handle as well as linear spring kits-- GC and TCK

Target Market:
Two groups:
1) People wanting the lowest drop possible, regardless of handling tradeoffs
2) People wanting a reasonable drop and a better than stock ride, with a moderate street handling increase


TCK
Advantages:
Quality Proprietary KONI dampers w/custom front housing (also D/A rear)
Infinite spring choices within capabilities of damper @750 pounds/inch
High quality lightweight Vogtland VVS wire springs
Springs can be changed out without needing to corner balance car again
High quality Teflon monoballs throughout where applicable
Complete kits with all needed components
Strong customer service

Disadvantages:
slightly pricier than competition (GC)
D/A rear shocks rattle update: they no longer rattle
linear spring means it does not ride as well as KW

Target Market:
Three groups (determine by spring rate and shock selection):
1) Street drivers wanting a good ride, moderate handling increase, and a reasonable drop
2) Serious street/track drivers wanting to maintain civility
3) Pure track drivers looking for a significant handling increase without Moton expense


Ground Control

Advantages:
KONI dampers
Infinite spring choices within capabilities of damper @750 pounds/inch
Complete kits with all needed components
Very price competitive
Some innovative/unique product designs (sways, Front Control Arm Bushings)

Disadvantages:
Some KONI items off the shelf and or modified
Slightly worse ride than competition (TCK) at any given spring rate
linear spring means it does not ride as well as KW

Target Market:
Three groups (determine by spring rate and shock selection):
1) Street drivers wanting a good ride, moderate handling increase, and a reasonable drop
2) Serious street/track drivers wanting to maintain civility
3) Pure track drivers looking for a significant handling increase without Moton expense


my vote goes to the GC it's a complete package.

i'm als going with this man's wheels setup!
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=144217

[Bashar M.]

Hmmmm..........

Ayham: 2003 M3 (Euro-Spec)

In my opinion ur setup should be as the following:

1. Derlin front control arm bushing.
2. Power flex subframe + diff mount bushings + Rear trailing arm bushings.
3. KW V3 (Great setup for track days + Redline challange) can be dialed in many ways to suit ur driving style, and can be lil. comfy on the streets (since its not a hardcore race car).


Bruno: 2004 M3 (US-Spec)

ur car can use the same setup i mentioned before (Ayham's) and regarding ur brake kit ull be needing only the CSL carrier and not the Caliper :)


Also bare in mind that ull be needing some maintenance:

- Front tie rods (pair)
- Replacing snapped ball joints
- Rear shock tower mounts + some Z3 reinforcement plates

[ghoonk]

Ayham, remember the stainless steel braided brake lines, and good brake fluid (Motul RBF600 / AP Racing DOT5.1 - and remember to flush the system if you are switching between DOT4 and DOT5.1!)

Good coilovers that are set up properly (read: corner balanced) are probably far superior to ARBs, so rather than spending money on ARBs, get the car corner balanced.

And the best way to get the car faster is to mod the software between the steering wheel and the seat!

[Ayham]

Modding the Stig behind the wheel is being taken care of by the HPDS ;)

KW is an out of the box kit; compromised. But you can still configure it to your choice of spring rates and whether linear or progressive springs. The quality is great too. But to be seriously competitive, you need to walk the extra mile and get the KW Club Sport (AED13K). For our applications and level of championships, no thanks.

The GC comes with an extra thing or two which are handy setting up the whole thing (bump stops, RSMs, 2 camber plates [sets]). And at AED3K cheaper than KW V3, it's a no brainer. The kit is proven.

I've got the Trailing Arm poly bushings ordered (RTABs) and the Front Control Arm poly bushings (FCAMBs) as well. Should make a MAJOR improvement in steering (FCAMB) and exit speeds (RTAB). Also got my SS brake lines 2 weeks ago, not installed yet. I'm going to spend on maintaining the car (flushing the cooling system and adding water wetter), new brake fluid (DOT 5), and new pads. OEM pads are more than enough for the Redline Challenge; they held their ground for 2 hard track evenings. The rest I spent on an FIA helmet and some gloves....

As we progress, I'm going for a square rims setup to eliminate understeer. Pirelli has given me some Pirelli Corsa semi slicks to abuse this season, thanks a lot for the push Raad. Should be a close one between us this season, can't wait! ;)

[Ayham]

Just got in touch with Bimmer World's Rob Keehner...Good things are due ;)

[Nabil]

Well I still dont know what set up I will be running the BMW at but im very close to knowing a very good one fr the GT3, I jujst managed to open up more camber on my car by rotating strut bolts 60 degrees, that actually gives less caster as well, I will take it today for alignment and hope for a -2.5 front and -2.4 in the rear, I will adjust my toe to +5 front and +13 rear, I will make sure that height is 115mm front and rear is 128mm, and test those setting next track eve, actually on the 20th i will be getting the tool box and the jack and try to play around and test as much as I can, I changed the front and rear sway bars as well and will be adjusting those on the track and changing different tire pressures.

I did many searches and hope this one works

[Ayham]

+5 and +13 toe numbers is never heard of!! Porsches are radically different!

And regarding the BMW, you're insulting us :( You know we'll hook u up!

[Nabil]

No insult intended, I just need to get the car ready and the set it up according to what i will use it for ie saloon/touring or redline or both :s

yeah porsches are radical :D i will test it on the 20th and update here

[Ayham]

LOL, I was rhetorically using the word "insult"!! :)

You can't if you wanted to.... *awwwwwwwwwwwwwww*!!!

[Lutfy]

LOL, I was rhetorically using the word "insult"!! :)

You can't if you wanted to.... *awwwwwwwwwwwwwww*!!!

Sorry was out of town and didnt reply back to the emails sent to Bimmerworld.

Personally, I am not a big fan of having two seperate springs changing it just between track/street. PITA, alignment may not always hold up, shock valiving needs to be matched etc.

The ride height for 3 series should be rake .75" inch higher up front.

All the kits mentioned above are a coin toss. Any one of those can be set up well. Price aside, I would go with the GC kit put together by Bimmerworld. I ran 700lbs front in my E36 M3 with 600lbs at the back. With a 24mm rear bar the car was ALL over the place and couldnt put the power down at all. James (Clay) helped me at Sebring with the setup and we removed the rear bar. Mild understeer offset by putting in a stock rear bar.

James seems to know the setup well and most prolly you wont be needing the larger swaybars because you are running stiffer springs (consult this with him since no one mentioned the swaybars).

Long and short, here is what I did on both my E36 M3 race cars (Green and Blue) and they both set track records.

Green: UUC front 25.4mm swaybar set to full stiff with 18mm 325i sport rear bar. Turner's Bilstein I Stock shocks (shortened and revalved) with 700lbs front and 800lbs rear.

Blue: Stock bars with above mentioned shocks and 800lbs front and 700lbs rear.

Both cars had the front control arm bushings and the rear trailing arm bushings replaced with poly counterparts and ran 7.2 degree caster (thanks the offset CAB) with -3.0 front camber, 0 toe, -2 rear camber 1/32 toe in.

Car handled like a champ.

I spent one F***ING year trying different setup and the simplest option was:

Pick up the phone and speak to James Clay get it once, do it right.

End result?

Google video up: Barber Qualifying

I had no problems with keeping up with the I Prepared car (BTW he won his class championship and is FAST) in turns. He pulled on me on the straights due to 400lbs weight advantage and 60hp more.

$2K should be the ballpark you should end up spending. When the time comes to set the car up with the ride height etc., I have data from both E36 and E46 race cars and help you set it up.

Brakes: Bruno, I thought you could run the stock E46 M3 and the CSLs run the same calipers just different rotors no? And PLEASE get the ducting. Will save you tons of money on rotor/pad wear. No need for a BBK on this car once you have the CSL rotors and ducting in place (FYI, on the same video above, I had stock E36 M3 brakes with PF01 pads compared to Stoptech BBK on Steve's car).

Keep it stock for the most part, just do the bushings, pads, suspension. Done.

Lutfy

[Nabil]

I started working on the 318is race car project, I decided to start the project on a smaller budget than what was intended before due to some work responsibilities that is draining my cash resources and my other race car (the porsche).

We will start with dumping the original 4 banger away and putting in the E36 M3 euro spec 3.0L engine and transmission, bashar is getting me a diff and clutch + flywheel from Jordan which should arrive in about 2 weeks, I will try to reduce the car's weight asmuch as possible, insall a suspension (didnt decide which one yet) and the M3 brakes, I will change all the bushings to poly ones from powerflex, this will be stage one.

Will keep you all posted

(bruno, let your guys take pics:thanks2:)

[Ayham]

Agreed Ahmad, I know people would pay for that kinda backup! Does make things easier to have someone who's done it all seen it all...

We're set on the GC, but as you said still did not decide whether or not to use sway bars. The FCAB & RTAB poly bushings are at TAM as we speak, will pick 'em up tomorrow...I'll run the beginning of the season on my stock setup (with shot shocks) and save the Corsas till later with the GC kit in.

I DO suggest using brake cooling ducts. DIY? When are you free and what do we need?

Nabil, dude can't even start imagining what that red pocket rocket would be doing!!!!