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    Your One Stop Brake Information Technical Thread

    Hi guys,
    For those of you who are interested in big brake kits or have any technical question about brake pads please post here. All asnwers will be sponsored by Carbotech performance ceramic brake pads.

    You can ask abour rotors, pads, calipers and you can post your braking system technical issues or failures here too!

    For some information on Carbotech ceramic pads, here are short discriptions of all the compounds:

    +Bobcat: Bobcat is the high performance street compound that is Carbotech's most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Bobcat is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non corrosive dust. Bobcat offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser, and has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships. The Bobcat compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. Bobcat compound has also been found to extend the life of your rotors 2-3 times. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat is NOT recommended for any track use.

    +AX6: AX6 was specifically engineered for Autocross applications. A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range (150°F to 1250°F +). Advanced compound matrix provides an excellent initial “bite”, high coefficient of friction, and very progressive brake modulation and release characteristics. AX6 offers high fade resistance, rotor friendliness at all temperatures, excellent cold stopping power, and non corrosive dust. As a result, AX6 is an excellent choice for Autocross & novice track day drivers and beginner high performance driver education (HPDE) drivers on street driven cars using street tires eliminating the need to change brake pads at the track. AX6 has gained tremendous popularity with SCCA Prosolo/Solo2 competitors for its fantastic bite, release & modulation. Many drivers use the AX6 for street driving as well, even though Carbotech doesn’t recommend street driving with AX6 due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise. AX6 is NOT a race compound, and should not be used as such. AX6 shouldn’t be used by any intermediate or advanced track day drivers, and should not be used with “R” compound tires (racing tires). Cars in excess of 300hp and/or 3,000lbs should not use AX6 for any track use.

    +XP8: A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range (200°F-1350°F+). XP8 is the first of Carbotech's racing compounds. Outstanding initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance, very rotor friendly with 100% non-corrosive dust. Excellent as a front brake pad for lighter ITA, ITB, ITC, SRF, H4, H5, and other cars that weigh less than 2,400lbs. Perfect for novice, intermediate and advanced track day (HPDE) use with any tire, and can still be driven safely to and from the track. There are several vehicles that use XP8 on the street, autocross, and at track day (HPDE) events. Carbotech does NOT recommended XP8 as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. XP8 is also a great rear brake pad for almost any race car (Spec Miata-T1/T2/CMC). XP8 is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.

    +XP10:When Carbotech unleashed the XP10 to the general public, and it was an instant success, gathering multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10 is a very high initial bite friction material, with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1650°F. Due to the high level of friction and bite, this material is recommended for cars weighing around 2,000lbs or more, not including formula cars and cars with brake bias bars weighing less than 2,000lbs. This is the preferred compound for the front of Spec Miata racers, SSC,SSB, T3, SRF, ITS, ITE, H1,H2, H3, H4, 944 Cup, ST, GS, Factory Five Cobra’s and many more Grand-Am/ALMS/SCCA/NASA classes. XP10 is also ideal for advanced/instructor level HPDE drivers. XP10 still maintains the highly praised release and excellent modulation, rotor friendliness, and 100% non-corrosive dust that have made all Carbotech compounds so successful. XP10 is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
    Last edited by Auto Works; 10-01-2009, 05:42 PM.

    #2
    Most problems are fitment issues due to not enough research on part of the buyer. Rims + BBK combinations are the culprits...Also incorrect pad material choices for a specific application (too dusty, too squeaky, harsh on the rotors, etc...)

    Will sticky this thread for future reference....

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Ayham View Post
      Most problems are fitment issues due to not enough research on part of the buyer. Rims + BBK combinations are the culprits...Also incorrect pad material choices for a specific application (too dusty, too squeaky, harsh on the calipers, etc...)

      Will sticky this thread for future reference....
      Ayham you brought a very important point here. Let me answer in 2 points:

      It's much easier for any aftermarket brake system manufacturer to identify the brake pad size for a BBK. This is because all BBK manufacturers always name or number the kits and the kits sizes are easily accessed by the aftermarket manufacturer. For example, getting the right pad for a Brembo kit on a Nissan Altima 93 is much much easier than getting the OEM pad for the same Altima 93.

      ...And this leads to the second point:

      Most far Asian car producers tend to change few things in their production lines many times a year and even per region. A Japanese or Korean car sold in USA might have different pad size than the same one sold in the Arabian Gulf. This is due to many reasons that it's hard to list here but this is the fact.

      European cars are much much easier to identify than Asians, Americans are easy too.

      The solution for an old grey pad size for a Japanese car? Take off the pad on a white paper, outline the metal plate "Backing plate" using a pen, measure the width and length of the pad and send it to the aftermarket manufacturer. Based on the size and shape, the can identify the FMSI number and get you the right pads.

      Comment


        #4
        The solution is actually an ingenious one... hehe. so simple yet extremely effective... I assume :)
        sigpic

        Something EVIL is brewing... :///M:

        Cry havoc... and let slip the dogs of WAR!!!

        Comment


          #5
          You'd be laughing, but I know of a couple of BBK manufacturers who carry a generic caliper schematic where you print out from their website and then take it to your actual caliper and cut it out accordingly. Then you'd mail it back and they'll manufacture the pad for ya ;)

          Comment


            #6
            It's not the quickest way, but it's 100% certain !
            sigpic5/94' E36 318iS 5-spd
            Bilstein PSS|SWIFT 070's|26/18mm sways|FCABS|Sphericals|Prospec/ACS bars|M plates+shims
            LTW FW+228mm SACHS|UUC EVOII|ATS Metal LSD|Solid mounts throughout
            P&P TB|3" box|COP|FDM|De'heater plated
            Recaro|OMP|Borbet/MK Motorsports|M DSII's|Custom lip

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by SewerSideUp View Post
              It's not the quickest way, but it's 100% certain !
              Which is?

              Comment


                #8
                Marwan, ive seen you mention couple of times that "this is the last time you'll be changing your brake pads" to the members, I didnt get the point, once I install the Carbotech Ceramic brake pads dont I ever have to change the pads again ? I can use it for life time ? Please shed some light on this Thanks :)

                Comment


                  #9
                  ^+1
                  Drive To The Satisfaction... A Dreamer's Pursuit

                  2013 F10 M5 - M Drivers Package
                  Alpine White / Sakhir Orange

                  Mods: ZCP Kidney Grilles

                  2009 E92 M3 - M Drivers Package
                  Melbourne Red / Imola Red [Manual] (SOLD)

                  Mods: Full Catless AlphaMale Performance Valvetronic Exhaust | Macht Schnell Stage 2 Air Intake | H&R Lowering Springs | ECS Tuning Spacers | Carbon Fiber Front Splitters | Glossy Black Kidney Grilles | Plasti-Dipped Fender Grilles | LCI Tail Lights | Carbon Fiber H-Style Diffuser | Stage 2 Tune (Simon MotorSport) | Macht Schnell Pulleys | Carbon Fiber LowKick Trunk Spoiler

                  2003 E46 M3 - Carbon Black / Imola Red (BLOWN)
                  Mods: Rear Smoked LEDs | Front Smoked Corner Lights | 4300K Phillips 85122+ Bulbs | BMC Drop-In Panel | Matt Black Kidney Grilles | 7500K CCFL | Matt Black Side Grilles | FOX SS Muffler | VIEZU Remap | CSL Carbon Fiber Splitters | EvoSport Under Drive Pulley Kit | K&N Cold Air Intake | K&N Scoops | Hawk Carbon-Ceramic Brake Pads | R1Concepts Zinc-Coated Cross-Drilled Rotors | Agency Power Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines | Hyper Black M3 Competition Rims | FXR Bi-Xenon Projectors w/ Clear Lenses | 70% 3M Tinting
                  1997 E39 528i - Champagne Beige / Sand Beige (SOLD)
                  Mods: Front & Rear OEM Facelift | K&N Cold Air Intake | Straight Pipes | MAF Delete | Custom Made Air Intake Elbow | 3.15 LSD Differential | SplitFire Spark Plugs | E36-7 Z3 OEM 17" Rims | 50% 3M Tinting

                  Need Assistance?
                  eMail:
                  Rafik@bmwclubuae.com


                  @Rafik_Jabbour (Link)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by SSense View Post
                    Marwan, ive seen you mention couple of times that "this is the last time you'll be changing your brake pads" to the members, I didnt get the point, once I install the Carbotech Ceramic brake pads dont I ever have to change the pads again ? I can use it for life time ? Please shed some light on this Thanks :)
                    Thank you Ali for brining this point up, and I'm sorry not to be clear on this point. We, Carbotech and Carbotech dealers sued to use some words in the marketing communication, mails phones or any other communications. This is one of phrases that you will be always hearing from all Carbotech guys. So excuse my french:bow:

                    Back to the point, studies have shown that Carbotech pads last up to 75K miles on US partrole cars, which is around 100K kilometers of pads life under heavy usage, heat and used on heavy American cars that are equipped with poor braking OEM systems.

                    To our level here in the Middle East, all Carbotech customers with EVOs, BMWs, Audis and other well equipped European cars have never changed their pads for at least the past 4 years!

                    This is because you got a double braking power on a car with an efficient OEM braking system. The result is minimum friction at the pad surface and therefore longer pad life on those performance cars!

                    I hope I made myself clear and please feel free to come back asking for more questions. I'm happy answering all of your queries.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Does it affect the OEM rotor lifetime ??
                      Drive To The Satisfaction... A Dreamer's Pursuit

                      2013 F10 M5 - M Drivers Package
                      Alpine White / Sakhir Orange

                      Mods: ZCP Kidney Grilles

                      2009 E92 M3 - M Drivers Package
                      Melbourne Red / Imola Red [Manual] (SOLD)

                      Mods: Full Catless AlphaMale Performance Valvetronic Exhaust | Macht Schnell Stage 2 Air Intake | H&R Lowering Springs | ECS Tuning Spacers | Carbon Fiber Front Splitters | Glossy Black Kidney Grilles | Plasti-Dipped Fender Grilles | LCI Tail Lights | Carbon Fiber H-Style Diffuser | Stage 2 Tune (Simon MotorSport) | Macht Schnell Pulleys | Carbon Fiber LowKick Trunk Spoiler

                      2003 E46 M3 - Carbon Black / Imola Red (BLOWN)
                      Mods: Rear Smoked LEDs | Front Smoked Corner Lights | 4300K Phillips 85122+ Bulbs | BMC Drop-In Panel | Matt Black Kidney Grilles | 7500K CCFL | Matt Black Side Grilles | FOX SS Muffler | VIEZU Remap | CSL Carbon Fiber Splitters | EvoSport Under Drive Pulley Kit | K&N Cold Air Intake | K&N Scoops | Hawk Carbon-Ceramic Brake Pads | R1Concepts Zinc-Coated Cross-Drilled Rotors | Agency Power Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines | Hyper Black M3 Competition Rims | FXR Bi-Xenon Projectors w/ Clear Lenses | 70% 3M Tinting
                      1997 E39 528i - Champagne Beige / Sand Beige (SOLD)
                      Mods: Front & Rear OEM Facelift | K&N Cold Air Intake | Straight Pipes | MAF Delete | Custom Made Air Intake Elbow | 3.15 LSD Differential | SplitFire Spark Plugs | E36-7 Z3 OEM 17" Rims | 50% 3M Tinting

                      Need Assistance?
                      eMail:
                      Rafik@bmwclubuae.com


                      @Rafik_Jabbour (Link)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for the quick feedback Marwan. Sorry to bother you again, but my next query is that if I buy street use brake pads for my E39 M5, would there be any difference in braking if I just change the pads ? Or is the difference that they'd just last longer than my current OEM pads ?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by RiFo View Post
                          ^+1
                          Want some numbers? You might change your rotor twice before you start thinking about how much life is still there at your pads. Maybe like 4 years of brake pads life??

                          Also, Carbotech add more thickness to the pads compared to the OEM ones, I've noticed this myself manytime. You will know it when you have it in your hands.

                          Originally posted by RiFo View Post
                          Does it affect the OEM rotor lifetime ??
                          Yup. Here's the break down:
                          *Carbotech use kevlar in all the compunds. Kevlar presence helps in COOLing down your rotors everytime the pad touches the rotor surface. Kevlar is known for sucking heat and so.
                          *All OEM pads are made of carbon and iron. The problem with carbon & iron is that when it heats up it forms carbide. Carbide is used in cutting tools, so imagine what that does to your rotors.
                          *Along with the fact that those compounds tear up rotors, they also produce very corrosive brake dust.

                          Is that enough??

                          Originally posted by SSense View Post
                          Thanks for the quick feedback Marwan. Sorry to bother you again, but my next query is that if I buy street use brake pads for my E39 M5, would there be any difference in braking if I just change the pads ? Or is the difference that they'd just last longer than my current OEM pads ?
                          Carbotech's street pads are called "Bobcat". Bobcats are mainly used for show cars. Here's why:
                          1)Looking at it logically, you will have a SLIGHT better braking performance because you are running colder rotors. Just like changing your OEM rotors to performance ones and keeping everything else stock.
                          2)Bobcats are known to be the most SILENT ceramic pads on earth. All other ceramic pads including Carbotech's other compounds are noisy and they SHOULD squeek at some level.
                          3)Bobcats are dustless. This is helpful for your nice chrome wheels or if you hate the fact of cleaning your wheels every couple of days.
                          4)Bobcats are the most rotor friendly pads on earth. They have the most kevlar % per inch compared to other Carbotech pads. Also, Bobcats are 100% metal free. Other pads use a little of copper in the ceramic/kevlar compounds.

                          I hope you are enjoying all this info.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Marwan, last but not least, Im no expert in the braking info/ideas but if I install the Bobcats, will it affect anything ? Like Rifo said rotors or anything else ? My car is bone stock and I wouldnt want anything to get affected by installing this Bobcats.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Man walla i'm loving this !! I wanna bother you one more last time plz !!

                              Can you post what types of pads u've got!! like what is AX6 for example & what should we use bla bla bla ! plzzzz .....thx
                              Drive To The Satisfaction... A Dreamer's Pursuit

                              2013 F10 M5 - M Drivers Package
                              Alpine White / Sakhir Orange

                              Mods: ZCP Kidney Grilles

                              2009 E92 M3 - M Drivers Package
                              Melbourne Red / Imola Red [Manual] (SOLD)

                              Mods: Full Catless AlphaMale Performance Valvetronic Exhaust | Macht Schnell Stage 2 Air Intake | H&R Lowering Springs | ECS Tuning Spacers | Carbon Fiber Front Splitters | Glossy Black Kidney Grilles | Plasti-Dipped Fender Grilles | LCI Tail Lights | Carbon Fiber H-Style Diffuser | Stage 2 Tune (Simon MotorSport) | Macht Schnell Pulleys | Carbon Fiber LowKick Trunk Spoiler

                              2003 E46 M3 - Carbon Black / Imola Red (BLOWN)
                              Mods: Rear Smoked LEDs | Front Smoked Corner Lights | 4300K Phillips 85122+ Bulbs | BMC Drop-In Panel | Matt Black Kidney Grilles | 7500K CCFL | Matt Black Side Grilles | FOX SS Muffler | VIEZU Remap | CSL Carbon Fiber Splitters | EvoSport Under Drive Pulley Kit | K&N Cold Air Intake | K&N Scoops | Hawk Carbon-Ceramic Brake Pads | R1Concepts Zinc-Coated Cross-Drilled Rotors | Agency Power Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines | Hyper Black M3 Competition Rims | FXR Bi-Xenon Projectors w/ Clear Lenses | 70% 3M Tinting
                              1997 E39 528i - Champagne Beige / Sand Beige (SOLD)
                              Mods: Front & Rear OEM Facelift | K&N Cold Air Intake | Straight Pipes | MAF Delete | Custom Made Air Intake Elbow | 3.15 LSD Differential | SplitFire Spark Plugs | E36-7 Z3 OEM 17" Rims | 50% 3M Tinting

                              Need Assistance?
                              eMail:
                              Rafik@bmwclubuae.com


                              @Rafik_Jabbour (Link)

                              Comment

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