Wheel alignment - An stupid Secret?

[pablopet]

Hi everyone,

I have an existential doubt, separating the commercial part from the technical part, there is any technical justification to take your car to the BMW dealer to align the wheels?

I have an E46 M3 Vert and I’m trying to find the original alignment settings (parameter, specifications, calibration or how you want to name it) for my knowledge and to have the freedom to decide where to take it, but I’m not finding it, if someone can share this with me I’ll really appreciate it!

Something that I don’t understand is why this information is so difficult to obtain, It is like if car makers decide not to disclosure which and how much oil YOUR CAR need, and the only way to refill it is to go to the dealer and pay 10 times more than the normal price for an oil change.

I think that people choose the place to go to maintain their cars based on confidence, not in stupid secrets that finally, you will find the way to get.

Kind Regard,
Pablo

[Bruno]

Front (specified ranges): Camber -1° 20' to -0° 40', Caster 6° 55' to 7° 55', Toe 1mm to 2.4mm, Turning Angle Difference -2.03° to -1.03°
Front (specified ranges): Cross Camber -0° 30' to 0° 30', Cross Caster -0° 30' to 0° 30', Total Toe 1.9mm to 4.9mm
Rear (specified ranges): Camber -2° 00' to -1° 30', Toe 1.7mm to 3.0mm
Rear (specified ranges): Total Toe 3.4mm to 5.9mm, Thrust Angle -0.07° to 0.07°

http://m3.madrussian.net/faq.shtml


NON-M stuff that could be useful

also have a look at post #6
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=334908

go through this thread lots of reading and documents.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416660

[pablopet]

Front (specified ranges): Camber -1° 20' to -0° 40', Caster 6° 55' to 7° 55', Toe 1mm to 2.4mm, Turning Angle Difference -2.03° to -1.03°
Front (specified ranges): Cross Camber -0° 30' to 0° 30', Cross Caster -0° 30' to 0° 30', Total Toe 1.9mm to 4.9mm
Rear (specified ranges): Camber -2° 00' to -1° 30', Toe 1.7mm to 3.0mm
Rear (specified ranges): Total Toe 3.4mm to 5.9mm, Thrust Angle -0.07° to 0.07°

http://m3.madrussian.net/faq.shtml

Thanks Bruno, I really apreciate this info!
Do you know if the Coupe and Vert use the same settings? I know that in some other cars verts has a diferent setting becouse of the diferent chassis torsion.

[Bruno]

yeah look in post #3 in the second link. it looks like the ballastic specs for convertibles are different than coupes. i don't know what it means. but someone with a TIS can confirm this

[Hasan Shaikh]

Does this mean that the alignment that the Pirelli shop has done for my car is incorrect?

[Ayham]

Good tyre shops take their alignment figures from preset files from different car manufacturers for different models...

Pablo, what is your car driving like? Last time I checked it was SEXY!

[Bruno]

Does this mean that the alignment that the Pirelli shop has done for my car is incorrect?

:rofl: what does this thread have to do with your car

[Hasan Shaikh]

It is not about my car, it is about wheel alignment and so is my question.

[Bruno]

i can't guess your current allignmnet specs and don't know the right parameters of the M6's allignment therefore we can't tell if the allignment is wrong or right.

usually big shops have the numbers preset in the decvice and usually do the allignment based on these figures. you should be fine unless your allignment sheet doesn't match the factory settings which we don't have anyways

[Hasan Shaikh]

Thanks Bruno!

[pablopet]

Good tyre shops take their alignment figures from preset files from different car manufacturers for different models...

Pablo, what is your car driving like? Last time I checked it was SEXY!

Hi Ayham, the alignament of my car is almost fine, It's only taking to the right a bit and the steering wheel is not centered, but it's not a problem, let me explain why:
- I went to the Pirelli garage and they set the alignment machine for E46 M3
- I told them... but this is a vert so the settings must/could be specific for the Vert version because of the specific torsion settings of the chassis
- They agree but they toldme that in the version of the software that they have the Vert version is not included
- We went togheter to internet trying to find the specific parameters for an M3 vert but after 1/2h we decide to apply the M3 Coupe settings
- The guys were very friendly and receptive and they told me, bring the specific settings and we will do it again with those settings (so, no problem at all, I just need to bring them the proper settings)
- The alignment was never perfect but instead of taking it back I'm trying to find the settings and take the car back to them to do the job (and they could keep those settings for other verts)

But after a long time going through forums on internet, the alignment settings looks as big secret that no one knows, is frustrating because, as I sayd, I think is an stupid secret and I will ask BMW directly for this parameters and if they refuse, I will ask them for an official statement saying that this information is secret and only the dealers are authorized to have it, what I'm sure is not true and they will not be able to say this officially.
My common sense drive me to think that there is no sense to force a customer to align their car only in dealer's garages, alignment is a routinarie maintenance task, like changing oil and I can not imaging BMW saying (oficially) that you can only change the oil in dealer's garages.

i can't guess your current allignmnet specs and don't know the right parameters of the M6's allignment therefore we can't tell if the allignment is wrong or right.

usually big shops have the numbers preset in the decvice and usually do the allignment based on these figures. you should be fine unless your allignment sheet doesn't match the factory settings which we don't have anyways

Hi Bruno, you are right, usually big shops have the factory figures for alignment, this demonstrate my point that this information is not secret. The problem that I use to see that this shops use to know nothing about upgrading the software (including factory sheets) for their machines, that's why maybe they have BMW until 2003 (is just an example).
It happens to me with one of my friends, I went with him to change his tires and the guys on the shop align his Audi A4 Vert 2008 (with sport suspension) using A4 sedan 2006, they insist that the parameter are the same and after 1h going through the diferent options of their software without results we agree to do it again at Audi and if Audi use diferent setting they will give him his money back, so guess... the guys give him his money back.
I'm almost sure that those software upgrades are free of charge and anable you to have an up-to-date machine and alignment sheets, is just a question of asking the alignment machine manufacturer. ;)

[eoudeh]

check this out, from TIS and give me ur VIN to identify ur car correctly, this is for M3 E46 conv. 2003

[pablopet]

Thanks eouedh!

This is exactly the information that I been looking for!

I'm assuming that with this information any garage using any alignment machine will be able to correctly align the car, I'm right?

Another thing that I realize is about the BMW "ballasting" specs. It looks that for any BMW (Not M) these are the recomended weights and placement:

2 x 68 kg on front seats (seats in central position)
1 x 68 kg on rear seat (center)
1 x 21 kg in luggage compartment (middle) and full fuel tank.

But what about the ballasting for M3 alignment? and most important, it is really needed? what's the diference if you don't use the sand bags? this is the first time that I heard that a car need to be aligned using those extra weights!

And please, if you can check the recomendations for my VIN (WBSBR91004EX13340) I'll really apreciate it!

Thanks,
Pablo.

[eoudeh]

will let you know by tom. unfortunately my laptop not with me right now and im using wify one :D

[eoudeh]

plz check this out